Page 29 of Flying Saucers Magazine - June 1960

No. 2 Challenge To A Dero

By Peter Kor

In line with FLYING SAUCERS' policy to present ALL of the evidence, and BOTH sides of the argument, we have secured the opinions of a true unbeliever. Mr. Kor, we are sure, does a fine job of presenting the reverse side of the coin, and if we cannot meet his challenge, then we shall have to revise our thinking. When we say we, it is in reference to whit Mr. Kor calls the UFO investigator. That means all of you, as well as FLYING SAUCERS. But not particularly FLYING SAUCERS, because we believe that our viewpoints have not "sinned" as badly as Mr. Kor claims. In our turn, we will respond to Mr. Kor with articles of our own, to prove that our "scientific method" has been valid. We have never, for instance, gone for the interplanetary theory, nor have we lumped all factors into one comprehensive "mystery". Flying saucers, in the literal comprehension of the word, means just what it says-some sort of flying machine shaped like a saucer in general aspect, which is unidentified as yet. To call fireballs, lights, ice falls, poltergeists, sonic booms, etc etc etc flying saucers has never been our policy. Yet, flying saucers covers a host of mysterious things, and merely that fact does not postulate they are all part of a single "mystery". If a "sonic boom" that occurs when no jets are present is caused by a flying saucer, we want to find proof that this is so but first, we must complete our factual case for the flying saucer itself. With Mr Kor's valuable opposite viewpoints, we expect to find it difficult to go astray with wishful thinking! It there are any of our readers who wish to join in, with scientific methodology, to prove to Mr. Kor the existence of flying saucers, which he says is one part a mystical mystery, they are heartily invited to participate.

The first article in this series (Dec. 1959) created quite a stir. It seems that an overwhelming percentage of readers thought it was incredible that I do not believe in flying saucers. Some went on to say that, in view of my "ridiculous stand," I must be a paid agent of the "silence group." one fellow even claimed that peter Kor is a pen name for ray Palmer, who is trying to create reader interest by publishing contrary views in flying saucers.

Let me answer all of these accusations now. To all of you who are seeking some ulterior motive for my stand on the flying saucer question, please hear the facts: I do not deal in beliefs as you do: you believe in flying saucers. I say you have no factual basis for your belief. I say to believe in flying saucers is one thing, but to be justified in your belief is another. Some of you accuse me of being an agent for some sort of "silence group," whatever that might be. Why? is your thinking so stereotyped that you categorically classify all of those who disagree with you, as enemies? are you so afraid that someone or some fact will demolish your cherished dreams, that you construct a wall around your mind that warns: "thou shalt not trespass on my beliefs or else I shall accuse you of conspiracy?"

Just to keep the record straight, I am bound to state that ray Palmer is not peter Kor! readers of this magazine have asked me to defend my accusation that the flying saucers do not exist. My answer is that I will not attempt to defend that for which no defense is necessary: facts are my position-let them speak for themselves. Most of you deal in theories and speculations-let these be recognized for what they are.

Before delving into the Shaver mystery, I would like to define some terms that will be used at great length. First, a theory "is a general principle offered to explain observed facts," and is the basis of the scientific method. Certain events or facts are witnessed and a principle is created to account for the occurrences. The principle is then tested by a series of calculated predictions. The scientist a s s u m e s that his theory is correct and he proceeds to calculate the theoretical consequences of his theory. If specially designed experiments yield results which coincide (within the experimental error) with the theoretical results, the theory is said to be verified. However, verified theories are not facts: a fact "is an actual event," but the verified theory is merely one general principle that has been proven to explain certain observed events. Conceivably, several other principles could also survive the same test of experimental prediction, and thereby satisfy the same set of facts. Does this bother the scientist? no, for as long as any verified theory enables him to predict the future behavior of his subject, he is satisfied. Time is the ultimate judge. Either an "actual event" will prove that the theory is a reality, or the scientists' predictions will at some time. Fail, and the verified theory will be re-evaluated in the light of newly observed facts. The result of the latter case will be a new theory, a new attempt to verify it, and another eventual breakdown of the theory. And so the cycle goes-it is called science.

Ufo researchers present many so-called solutions to a mystery that does not exist. These "solutions" are in the form of un-verified theories. I challenge anyone to subject his theory to a test of verification. I submit that 'any such attempt will result in the undeniable result that the theory is wrong: do any of you dare to accept my challenge? are any of you objective enough to scientifically predict according to your theory? are any of you honest enough to interpret the results of such an experiment accurately? will you admit the inadequacy of your theory if it is proven wrong? the decision is yours. Either you cling hopefully to an idea that intrigues you, or you make some positive attempt to discover reality. The scientific method never assures you of finding what is real, but it does assure you of knowing what is not real.

There will be those of you who will claim that your "solution" to the saucer mystery is not a theory at all, but an undeniable reality. Anticipating this, let me point out that a reality "is that which exists independent of ideas concerning it," and demands a demonstration of such: in other words, if you have discovered something real, you have also discovered the means of showing anybody that it is real. I contend that no one will dare come forth with a demonstration of the reality of flying saucers because no one has discovered anything real.

A theory introduced by Richard S. Shaver, and supported by ray Palmer, is quite interesting. I say interesting because it was not offered as an explanation of flying saucers, but as publicized before the deluge of object-sightings. It was offered as science-fiction and must be considered science fiction until an honest effort is made to verify it. The story tells of an abandoned race that has been existing in great caves in the earth for thousands of years. These people are the remnant of an ancient "elder race" that once produced fantastic technological achievements. The "elder race" was evacuated from the earth in space ships during a time of total disaster. The cave dwellers eventually separated into two factions-the degenerates (dero) and the integratives (tero). The dero is responsible for all of the evil in the world from war to broken legs. They accomplish these feats of "mischief" by the use of huge machines that can project three-dimensional pictures, r e a d minds, stimulate pleasure and manipulate physical objects at great distances. The dero plot is to eventually rise from his home in the earth to rule the surface, as his ancestors did at one time in the dim past. Meanwhile, the tero wish for peaceful coexistence and foil the evils of the dero whenever possible. In short, we who live on the surface are in the middle of a vast underground struggle of good versus evil. The flying saucers are the vehicles left behind by the "elder race" in the great cavern and are piloted by both dero and , tero. Shaver also states that some of the reported ufos are space ships from other planets, the pilots of which are engaged in looting the caves of the treasures that exist there. This is the story-now here are the facts:

To begin with, whether they are claimed to originate from other worlds or the center of the earth, there is no factual basis to the idea that physical realities in the form of flying ships are visiting the earth. To say that the Shaver mystery explains the flying saucer mystery is to attempt to solve one myth by the use of another. Two myths do not make one reality: it has been said that Richard Shaver predicted diskshaped vehicles before the saucers appeared. This is true only if one assumes that such flying saucers exist at all. I deny that there are facts which prove the existence of these vehicles. How, then, can I admit that Shaver successfully predicted their appearance? while Shaver was engaged in writing science fiction, he could have been documenting the experiences he has claimed. If Shaver has been to the caves; if he has conversed with the inhabitants; if the dero have afflicted him in any way, he surely must be able to demonstrate the reality of the situation. I challenge him to do so-to take me, or any party, to the caves; to predict beforehand how the dero might deal with me after I know of their reality. Will you accept my challenge Mr. Shaver?

Ray Palmer was editor of amazing stories when the first Shaver manuscript crossed his desk. A couple of years and 50,000 letters later, Palmer began claiming that the Shaver mystery was real, and not the result of an incredible imagination. He had evidence that proved the Shaver mystery. To prove, "is to test by experiment or to establish by argument or evidence." a proof is not a fact: so when ray Palmer offers us proof of the Shaver mystery, he is offering us a theory that he claims is supported by evidence. A theory that requires verification to become useful and "an actual event" to become fact. Let no one claim that the Shaver mystery is a reality -if it was, it could be demonstrated. Eventually, time will provide such a demonstration or the mystery will be proven a fraud. Richard Shaver and ray Palmer have attempted to substantiate a theory with particular facts. Here are some examples of the facts Palmer and Shaver are trying to explain.

(1) millions of Americans "hear voices." doctors call this a form of insanity but Shaver and Palmer say that these hexed people are being strongly influenced by the. Dero and his telaugray machine.

(2) many persons "see things" that other people do not see. This is explained by the huge "projection machines" that exist in the caverns.

(3) the many myths about mischievous dwarfs and devils from the hell in the earth are offered as further proofs.

(4) Palmer sends a man into a cave and he never comes back. Palmer contends that he was kidnapped by dero and might have been sold at the "meat market." there are other similar evidences, but one thing is apparent: the Shaver mystery is not a fact-it is a sensational theory that is in need of verification before it can be seriously considered. Anyone who claims that it is a fact must demonstrate this, or admit he is a liar. If Shaver and Palmer will consent to an open test, if they will accept my challenge, perhaps then we can determine the stature of the Shaver theory.

The Shaver theory presents two very obvious contradictions. First of all, it is said that the dero have been conspiring against the surface people for thousands of years, and eventually hope to conquer and rule us. At the same time, the dero is presented as an entity not unlike a god, in that he can accomplish everything from shooting down an atlas rocket to tripping your aunt emma. These "deeds" are all done by manipulating fabulous machines left to the dero by the fleeing "elder race." Shaver and Palmer interpret most common events in terms of the aero and his machines. If this article were to arrive in amherst with 100 mistakes in it, the dero will be accused instead of my rather poor typing. If I should fall from a ladder soon after the publication of this article, the blame will be put upon some "theoretical elf" instead of my clumsiness.-the contradiction is this: if the dero is capable of such incredible deeds as these, why has it taken him thousands of years to subdue the surface people? why aren't we all ruled by dero today?

But the dero concept has been accepted by many without serious question. Why? because the dero relieves men of their responsibility for the wrongs they do: if you lie or steal, you can accuse the influence of the dero through the use of the telaug-beam. If you kill, it was because of that "small voice in the back of your mind." if you are an evil person, it is because a degenerate devil has been conspiring against you. Dick Shaver and ray Palmer have given you an excuse for doing wrong and for poor achievement. Do any of you dare to take the chance of demolishing that excuse?

The other obvious contradiction has many illustrations. The theory states that a vast network of caves exists that was fashioned by intelligent hands. Yet, not one actual event is on record of persons visiting these caves, telling the world of their discovery and of forming an expedition to re-visit the caves. Thousands of dero and tero inhabit these caves, the story goes. Yet, not one actual report by reliable people of small creatures emerging from a cave opening on the way to scout our civilization, or of these dwarfs returning to their underground den. Huge flying machines rise from the depths of the earth, traverse thousands of miles over the surface, and return. Yet, no one reports the launching place of these "saucers" or trails one to its lair. Apparently these vehicles are as invisible as they are numerous. Thousands of humans are "kidnapped each year and sold in the dero meat markets, yet no one has caught one of the dwarfs in the act; no one has foiled their attempt and discovered the hiding 'lace of the dero. The incredible contradiction is this: the Shaver theory postulates a vast underground existence of thousands of "little people" who are very involved in the everyday life of humans on the surface, and yet this intimate involvement has not produced the reality of the situation.

Shaver and Palmer offer us an answer to this contradiction. "it is traditional," they say, "for the dero to maintain the secrecy of his existence." now a tradition is "a custom handed down from generation to generation." but how "custom" enables the dero to hide his tremendously complex undertakings, is not explained. It appears that the dero is as infallible as he is mysterious. He is presented as a magician who is forever beyond any test we may want to use in an attempt to establish his reality. He is capable of everything except of revealing his own reality. But apparently he is not without pride. So I will conclude this article by appealing to the pride of the dero. I challenge him to reveal his identity to me-to meet me face to face. I dare him to make me "hear voices" or to drive me crazy with projected apparitions.

Do you have the nerve? you see, I know that you do not exist. I know that you are the creation of the evil in men's minds and that you can only exist in the minds of those who give you sanction.

Ray Palmer would say that by challenging the dero I have assured myself of never seeing one, because to appear to me now, would mean revealing his identity which he is forbidden to do. But I say if I do not see a dero it is because the dero is a myth, a figment of someone's imagination. But my challenge still stands as an experimental test of the reality of the Shaver mystery. The die is cast and time, now, will be the judge.

Next I will examine the "new age" brought about by the coming of the "space people"-the interplanetary hoax. We will also look into the question of "saucers" f r o m the earths' poles. The facts will be listed; let them fall where they may.

1.-the Shaver mystery was not presented as science-fiction. It was first presented as "racial memory" and later as fact. Mr. Shaver at all times presented his manuscripts as , absolute fact; your editor took those "facts" and wove them into "adventures" in which no "fact" was changed, merely used in an entertaining way, so as to demonstrate how the fact was probably used. This was done in exactly the same way that scientists use in national geographic, when they present both paintings and word stories to explain (using the actual facts of their research, such as the artifacts recovered from excavating a pre-history cave-man dwelling) how that cave-man probably lived, supported his family, 'fought, died. You can, at the field museum in chicago, see reproductions of ancient extinct dinosaurs, complete with hide, coloring, fleshy appendages, etc, in spite of the fact teat tae wily actual portion of the dinosaur is a few unrelated bones or teeth. Mr. Kor, apparently, would acknowleage this "proof" of the dinosaur without castigating its "reconstructors-in theory".

2.-it has never been stated that the dero are responsible for all of the evil in the world from war to broken legs.

3.-it has, also, never been stated that the dero plot eventually to rise from the caves to rule the surface. The dero is largely degenerate, mentally as well as physically, and incapable of any intelligent plan of operation, merely of momentary devilment, even though consistently as a regular practice.

4.-there is a factual basis for physical realities (ie. Flying saucers, so-called). Mr. Kor ignores the physical facts: observers of trained and reliable capabilities; radar; photography; etc. It would be well for Mr. Kor to study such evidence. We suggest that, although we do not firmly back major keyhoe in his theories, we admit that he has a good number of these factual physical evidences which Mr. Kor cannot reasonably deny, and that they constitute factual demonstration, a n d that these "demonstrations" can be duplicated and predicted, although not as to exact timing nor exact individual. We can safely say that major keyhoe will, within 1960, produce several incontestible physical realities which come u n d e r the heading of "flying saucers" or "ufo".

5.-Mr. Kor's challenge is based on "conditions" which make any acceptance difficult. Shaver must take him to a cave wherein he will find dero waiting to receive him. If this were possible, the Shaver "mystery" would indeed be the Shaver fact. It is because Shaver cannot at will perform such a feat that the whole thing is a "mystery". As for answeing challenges, he has. Your editor knows of at least two fatal results. Would Mr. Kor, faced with such a result, direct still more victims to their death (no matter that the deaths can reasonably be ascribed to simple accidents, such as gong into a cave and not coming out, or being found dead in the river)? if you direct live people to a possible entrance to a cave inhabited by dero, and two of the people meet violent deaths, the percentage of "accident" is much too high to warrant further activities in this direction: both your editor and Mr. Shaver, even if they could at this very moment direct Mr. Kor to a cave where he would meet a dero, would very positively refuse. Simply on the basis that we believe it would be manslaughter, if not second-degree murder. If we , were certain there were dero there, it would actually be murder, although legalistically outside the bounds of the law, and therefore we could get away with it. Mr. Kor will snort at our "moral" attitude, but let him realize, this is a true morality on our part, and a strictly personal matter he -has no right to ask us to ignore.

When your editor sent kenneth arnold to tacoma to investigate the famous "tacoma incident", the result was the death of two air-force men, and the death of three other men. No matter how they actually died, at least two of them would not have died as they did, had we not acted as we did. Our readers can believe, without error, that if the government could have proved our tacoma activities to be a hoax, we would have been liable to prosecution for manslaughter, and also for damages! Mr. Kor asks us to be fools and risk further occurrences of this nature. Whatever his reaction, he cannot deny that our reason for not complying with his request is factual reality.

6.-Mr. Kor intimates that, lacking demonstration, the Shaver mystery is fraud. How so? even if wholly theory, its disproof does not convert theory into fraud.

7.-it is medically accepted by insurance companies that electric arc welding is an insurable hazard, because of the fact that it produces p r a n o I a (hearing voices). This change in insurance policy came as a direct result of insurance company research into actual cases, stimulated in part by your editor's passing on of the evidence garnered during the process of presenting the Shaver mystery. Your editor says: if you operate an electric arc welder, find yourself another job!

8.-your editor does not contend that a man sent into a cave was kidnapped by dero and that he might have been sold at a "meat market".

9.-all of the statements in the paragraph beginning: "the Shaver mystery present two very obvious contradictions," are untrue, except that the dero do accomplish their "deeds" by means of their "machines". The rest is assumption on Mr. Kor's part. As for his questions, we can answer them no better than he can, except insofar as we've already answered them hundreds of times in presenting the mystery and until this date.

10.-it is true that the mystery can be used to alibi your mistakes. This is exactly the way religion is used. "i was tempted, and therefore I did eat." Mr. Kor's argument here is specious. It applies to anything that can be used to shift responsibility. As & specific argument against the Shaver mystery it can

Not be given more than equal credence. However, if Mr. Kor wishes facts, let him make a collection of the instances in which a killing, or multiple killings, have been the result of "a voice told me to do it." not satan, or dero, or imps, or god, but "a voice" (sometimes audible, and sometimes silently mental). What is Mr. Kor's "source" for these voices? if he says "the killer's own mental processes", may we grin coyly and ask him to demonstrate it upon demand?

11.-actual records of persons visiting caves. Must we bother to answer this one? let Mr. Kor investigate for himself. Start with floyd collins (and his blue men). Actual reports of small creatures emerging from caves, dwarfs returning to their den. There are hundreds, thousands, more, but Mr. Kor would call them all lies. He wants the dwarf, not the report, as he requests. The reports exist in large number. We can produce them at will, but so can Mr. Kor. Let him do a little of the leg work!

12.-huge "flying machines" (including emerging from the earth and the sea). More leg work, Mr. Kor. Hop to it. Easy to produce such reports, and witnessed by millions. Don't you read flying saucers? we present lots of stuff like this!

13.-come now, Mr. Kor, in the event we were able to demonstrate the dero to you, would you still wish your "dare" to remain in effect? wouldn't you "wish you hadn't", if you actually began to hear voices and went crazy from hallucinations? why not "dare" the lightning to strike you? it might, you know, but not likely. We humbly request the tero to foil any attempt on the part of a dero to take your dare!-rap.

The end